Welcome to Issue 3 of Cause & Effect, a project I conducted in 2015. Issue I is here, and Issue 2 is here.
Briefly, the purpose of Cause & Effect was to talk to people about loneliness—if and how they experienced it and how they dealt with it. Interviewees were kept anonymous but that did not always prove to be sufficient to ease people’s comfort with having their story appear in print—this issue is case in point. The output of the conversations was in the form of palm-sized zines distributed in public spaces throughout my neighbourhood and the city via myself and friends.
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Over the din of the espresso machine, cups and saucers clinking, and the music humming at Café Napoli on Commercial Drive, we chatted…
[April 2022 Update: Café Napoli later became The Drive Coffee. It now seems to be shut down.]
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Three people speaking on July 30, 2015. My words are italicized. Names have been changed to protect the identity of participants.
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I awkwardly began the conversation by confessing…
Having a partner is…good for me, it’s really good.
[Laughter all around. Maybe being awkward is OK sometimes.]
REGINA: This is excellent!
I think living alone and not having anyone to talk, to share your frustrations can be hard.
REGINA: I call friends if I’m alone.
ZOE: I go to sleep. It’s better.
REGINA: You’re like that. She doesn’t like to complain.
Is that a reaction to stress? Because I find that happens to me when I’m stressed out. I go for a nap.
ZOE: Sometimes. Well, I became alone some time ago when my husband passed away, about 20 years ago. I have three children, but it wasn’t the same. The children live on their own, they can’t give you so much company. And then my younger daughter, she was close to getting married, so her and her boyfriend moved in with me and that was very nice, I had some company. But after a while they get married and they move out; that’s when I got very lonely.
Then I asked my son if he wanted to move in, he said ‘yes.’ For ten years it was very, very good. We were very happy, we both worked. I used to go to work and my son would pick me up. We go out for breakfast and dinner. We go maybe to the casino sometime. It was fun, really fun. But then ten years later it was awful, really awful. My son took his life, and I was alone again.
Then my oldest daughter came to the house and she suggest to me to sell the house and move here [Vancouver] because she was living here. At first, I didn’t want to and then she convinced me. And then when I move here, we were together with my daughter six months, but I wasn’t happy. She was there but I felt that she wasn’t because I was grieving for my son, you see. To me there was nobody there.
At that time, we were living in North Vancouver, then six months later we found this place here where I live now [East Vancouver]. Because the place was too small, she went out and find herself a place for two. And then a few months later, my daughter get married, and moved to Langley. I’m not going to say that I miss her because I understand, she had a husband, they have a business, they have a lot of things to do but I feel left out, you know? Lonely and left out, especially when the holiday comes. She plans things on her own with her friends, and I don’t blame her. Sometime I do. But you know, I’m learning a lot. I’m learning to be on my own. I have a dog that I look after and I’m very happy about…and I’m doing OK.
Sometime I feel lonely or I feel depressed…I go to sleep, I feel sleepy. Just, I need a rest I guess. I’m not saying I have a bad life, no. I have a good life. She knows [referring to her friend], I have a good life.
I’m curious…all these years…did you have a circle of friends?
ZOE: I had a lot of friends, but they were all living in Surrey. Nobody came here to visit me.
So when you moved, those friendships just didn’t last?
ZOE: No.
Not even by phone? Phone calls?
ZOE: Phone, yes. They phone and say, ‘how are you,’ this and that.
Would you guys try to meet up?
ZOE: Well, they suggest it, yes, but you know, I have to catch a skytrain and that’s no trouble for me because I enjoy the skytrain but sometime I have walk some of the road and my knee…I have a really bad knee with arthritis, it doesn’t allow me to walk too far.
And you’ve had this problem, the arthritis issue, for a long time?
ZOE: Oh yes, over 20 years. And when I moved here, I went back to work because I really like to work. The people I worked before, they called me back, and I said, ‘you know I’m not sure if I can do it but I’m going to come and try.’ And I did try but after one month I had to stop because my knee, they were really bad. Especially the left one, is really, really bad.
What sort of work did you do?
ZOE: I used to do house cleaning.
Yeah, that would be hard. You’re on your feet the whole day.
ZOE: And also, some of the houses, they have stairway, you have to go up and down. I enjoy working, I wish I could be working right now.
Was there a social aspect to going to work?
ZOE: Social…what do you mean?
Like, I mean, were there people there and would you have chats or would you be going to an empty house to clean?
ZOE: No, no, people, they were there. They were very sympathetic [simpatico/a in Italian means nice, pleasant]. They were very nice people; they never complain about anything. But it was me. I couldn’t do that. And I didn’t want to do it because I felt if I go and not do a good job for them, it’s not worth it because then they are not going to like it and then they might start complaining. I had a lot of people that I worked with that never, never, complain about me. It doesn’t matter how slow, how fast, never, never. They were very happy, I work for a lawyer, for a doctor—he was the head doctor in Surrey Memorial Hospital, and then I worked for a guy who had a forklift business…you know over the year I work for much more people, because when they get together those people they talk and they mention the people who work for them.
I was going to ask you how you got your work…word of mouth!
ZOE: I was happy about everything. They say everything comes to an ending…so, five years ago I just stop it and I said that’s enough.
So you really don’t speak to any of your friends in Surrey from way back?
ZOE: Actually, I don’t see anybody. I saw maybe one about a year ago, she’s 91 year old. I went to her birthday, I see her, that’s it. I don’t see any other people because they’re all busy with their own family, their own life, you know.
I wonder though if that isn’t one of the issues in our society, that people are too busy. I understand that when you have a family you’re busy but then the focus is so much on the family that if you’re not working on any outside relationships then when something changes, you find yourself alone.
ZOE: Yes, yes, exactly. You know, you probably did not go through this, I hope you never have to. Once your husband dies, or maybe your friend’s husband dies, the relationship is gone. Because you see, when the husband alive, they keep in contact with you, then we go do something, go visit each other. But once the husband is dead, it’s finished.
REGINA: It’s called the widow’s curse.
So, you mean, you stop seeing friends you would see with your husband. Some friendships stopped because of…
ZOE: Yes, because you see I moved here, for somebody from Surrey to come here it’s a long way but then the wife they get together wherever they know the people themselves, I guess they form their own group…like this lady that I know…she’s so…oh, she drives me nuts. She’s so close to her church, every word that she talks about it’s her church and that bothers me.
Yeah, I’ve had that experience…you know…talking to somebody and everything is through the lens of Christianity. It’s hard to have a conversation.
ZOE: And if she keeps and talk, she doesn’t let me say anything. I grew up with her but then I stopped to see her. She goes places. I don’t drive. For some people it’s easy, for some people it’s hard. She told me last Christmas, if you ever come to Surrey, we can get together some time. I say, yeah that would be nice, but she never phoned.
Plus, it’s hard for you to make that trip, as you said.
ZOE: And also, she has a son, he’s a drug addict. And then there’s an Italian lady that I saw here about 4 or 5 months ago, I was shocked to see her here I said, “Whatch’ you doing here?” “Oh, I came to look for something.” And her son is a drug addict too; I don’t like to be with those kind of people. She was trying to sell things to me…sometimes I found that people want your friendship for some reason or another. If I have a friend, I have a friend I want to be a friend with, not anything else. Like her [referring to friend, who is present] I know her for three years now.
REGINA: Five.
Maybe you met at the time you moved into the neighbourhood?
ZOE: She was the one who approached me, and she took me for coffee.
Oh, nice!
ZOE: And she lift my spirit up. You see the way she is. And I have to thank her a lot. She’s been a very good friend and I try to be a very good friend to her too. And that’s the way I want a friendship. I don’t want to be a friend because you want me to buy something…
Did you guys meet because you both had a dog? Was that part of it too?
ZOE: Yes, I had a dog.
REGINA: We had things in common. Both of us were grieving. We lost sons.
You said she asked you out for coffee. That’s almost exceptional, because people that I bump into that have dogs and with whom I have conversations, it never goes beyond…
REGINA: We’re both alone, we’re both the same age, we both lost sons. So of course, you’re lonely. The grief makes you lonely, because nothing else fills up that grief if you lost someone you loved dearly. Other things don’t fill it up. The best thing I find is to do, that I read, and it’s true, is to find someone else with the same grief.
That you can relate to, yeah…
REGINA: Nothing else matters, everything else is bullshit. The pain is so bad. You don’t care anymore about the new dress, you don’t want to talk about the mall, the new party…
ZOE: Then there’s another thing…a couple of years ago, I didn’t know what do in the weekend…you saw me…I started doing yard sales.
I noticed that. I was like ‘oh yeah, that’s becoming a regular thing.’
ZOE: But this year, I didn’t do it because the heat was incredible…
Is that why you started doing it? Because it gave you more interaction with people?
ZOE: Yeah. But anyway, that’s where my life is. Anyway, now I have to go…
[I probably should have let her go then but I squeezed in one more question.]
Yeah, you’re going bowling. How often do you go?
ZOE: Twice a week.
Are you in a league or something?
ZOE: Yes, a league. I used to play in Surrey too, but I stopped when my husband died. I went back when I moved here because I was lonely. I was angry or something. I was angry at the world. Well, we can see each other again.
REGINA: See you later, sweetie.
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Post-Interview
After all was said and done, Zoe said, “I don’t want to have anything to do with it.”
This is what happened before she said that.
It was the beginning of the year--2016. I called Zoe’s friend, Regina, and told her I had finished the zine and wanted to get it to Zoe, so she gave me Zoe’s phone number--I only new Zoe from walks around the neighbourhood. I knew which building she lived in but not her suite number. So I had to call Regina to figure out how to get the zine to Zoe. When I called Zoe, she thought I was someone else, another Italian Laura, so she spoke in Italian—which is fine, because I speak the language. She sounded happy to hear from me, or the other one, the one she thought I was. In any case, after we cleared up who I was, she told me how to get the zine to her and to please print it with a large font so she could read it easily. I obliged and prepared an envelope containing an enlarged version, and also enclosed the original palm-sized version.
She also asked that I give Regina the zine and Regina would get it to her. So later that day, or maybe it was the next, I got ahold of Regina who informed me she had made a big mistake—she should never have given me Zoe’s phone number. She said she wasn’t thinking when she did that and that Zoe is a very private person and does not like her phone number to be given out. Zoe felt her privacy had been invaded and that her friend had betrayed her. She also said something about not wanting to be used. She was mad at Regina and that’s when Zoe said, “I don’t want to have anything to do with it.”
So she never actually read the recorded conversation; wouldn’t even take the zine.
This now felt complicated. Could I still distribute Issue 3? I wasn’t sure if that felt right ethically.
Months passed and I got to thinking. She didn’t read it, she didn’t say don’t publish it, don’t distribute it, don’t do anything with it, and it is completely anonymous. So, I decided I would print it but I just wouldn’t distribute it in Zoe’s neighbourhood or any neighbourhood in Vancouver.
After, when I saw Zoe around the neighbourhood, I would try to avoid her; I just didn’t know what to say. I thought she probably felt used as she did mention this as an issue for her sometimes. Perhaps she didn’t really grasp what the project was about in the first place. When we inadvertently bumped into each other, neither of us mentioned the zine. Our interactions were polite but brief.
Ultimately, I decided to share Zoe’s story because it’s a reminder of how in old age we can lose our community and struggle to forge forward. Although Zoe’s story is sad, she nevertheless did take some action to improve her mental wellbeing: she got a dog, which gave her a reason to go for walks, which led to her meeting other people in the neighbourhood, but especially to make a new and precious friend—Regina; she joined a bowling league; she had yard sales.
These days when I go around the old neighbourhood, I sometimes spot Zoe sitting at a bench on the side street of Fratelli Bakery. Maybe she’s resting or maybe she’s people watching. I don’t know, but hopefully she’s forgotten about the whole incident.
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Thanks for reading and for ‘hearting’ last week’s post. I know that some of you, for sure, read the darn thing right to the end! Next week I’ll share Issue 4, the last issue from this project. ~ Laura